Badawi Refutation 9

Islamic Apologetics (Series K-part 2)

July 2004 version

Islamic Teachings (Dr. Jamal A. Badawi)

Package 9 : Jesus : Beloved Messenger of Allah - Part 2 (16 tapes)

Tape #1 Late Unitarians VII - Trinity, Atonement and Blood Sacrifice 1

a) Badawi favorably mentions William Channing, who attacks the Trinity

b) Badawi says the doctrine of the Trinity came from Gnostic and Oriental philosophy.

c) Badawi does not like the Athanasian Creed at all.

d) Badawi says that all the evidences that people present to prove the deification of Jesus are inconclusive and very weak and misinterpreted within the context of the whole Bible and in fact are simply allegorical.

e) 1 John 5:7 was "dropped", showing the Trinity is not true. (Repeat of his point in Series 8 tape #10a).

f) There is no support of the Doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible, just the absolute oneness of God is supported. The Trinity is not logical or reasonable.

a) Again, it is strange that Badawi would give support to beliefs of Unitarians, which include that many religions lead to God.

On one hand Badawi quotes Channing and other Unitarians and their quoting of Bible passages to attack the Trinity. On the other hand, Badawi attacks Bible passages (such as John 1:1,14; Philippians 2, etc.) that he does not like and their authors (such as John and Paul).

b) The Trinity could not have come from Gnostics, as Gnosticism was a cult that came from Christianity. It is also odd that Badawi would claim a doctrine of Christianity came from oriental religions, as there is more evidence that Islam borrowed from Zoroastrianism and other oriental religions than that Christianity did.

c) Badawi might not like any Christian creeds, not just the Athanasian (Nicene) Creed. Many people might not be aware that the Nicean Creed was not first formulated in 325 A.D. It was a slight modification of the old Creed of Jerusalem, and is also very similar to the earlier Creed of Caesarea. See the Apostolic Fathers vol.7 p.524 for more info on this.

d) As pointed out in the last series, on one side of his mouth Badawi says there is no evidence in the New Testament for the deity of Christ. On the other side of his mouth Badawi castigates Paul and the Gospel writers in Matthew and John for teaching the deity of Christ.

e) 1 John 5:7 explicitly mentions the Trinity. Does Badawi really think this verse should be in the Bible? Not hardly. Rather, there is no evidence that this verse was "dropped" from the original. Rather, this verse was added, as proved by the fact that there is no Bible with this verse in it until it was in the margin in one tenth and one 14th century manuscript, and not in the text of a Bible until the 16th century.

f) Our response to Series 8 tape 10 point 8 has over 100 verses supporting various aspects of the Trinity. We previously showed how the Trinity is anticipated in the Old Testament, revealed clearly in the New Testament, written about by early Christians, and even pagan knew Christians worshipped Jesus as God. Badawi has real trouble explaining away the triple point of water and the listener would find his arguments here to be very weak and inconclusive.

Tape #2 Trinity, Atonement and Blood Sacrifice 2 and 3

a) The Qur'an in Sura 5:75 says Jesus is not God

b) Suras 4:171 and 5:76 say there is no Trinity

c) Badawi says the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel, not God.

d) Badawi says Islam is a very clear "negation" of Trinity, Jesus' atonement, and His blood sacrifice.

e) Badawi says you can be a good Christian without believing in these things, or other distorted teachings given by an unreliable Bible based on faulty gospel records.

f) Badawi says Jesus never taught the idea of substitutionary blood atonement but rather keeping the ten commandments and doing good works according to Matthew 19:16-19.

a) This is probably Badawi's real reason for rejecting the Trinity, as He has not shown any substantial objections besides the Qur'an.

b) The issue is not what the Qur'an says, but that

b1) The Qur'an disagrees with the gospels on the deity of Christ

b2) The Qur'an says the original gospels were from God

b3) We can show that what we have is a faithful preservation of the original meaning.

b4) Therefore it is the Qur'an that is bogus

c) Thinking the Holy Spirit is Gabriel is a typical Muslim belief, though a small number of Muslims would disagree.

d) It is with sadness that we have to completely agree with Badawi here. Islam is a very clear "negation" of Trinity, Jesus' atonement, and His blood sacrifice.

Nevertheless, he should agree that if one assumes these are true, the Qur'an would be negating the truth.

e) While Badawi seeks to redefine what a Christian is, it could be mentioned that many Sufi, Shi'ite, and 'Alawite Muslims claim, with as much conviction as Dr. Badawi, that you can be a good Muslim and ignore the five pillars of Islam and in many cases drink wine.

f) Since Dr. Badawi rejects the Bible, he is only saying the Jesus of the Qur'an taught this.

Jesus also taught "all must honor the son just as they honor the Father" (John 5:23)

Jesus taught that all who do not believe who Jesus really is will die in their sins. John 8:24;12:47-48;6:45.

Jesus changed teachings on divorce, food, etc.

While we commend Dr. Badawi for reading the Bible, he needs to read the Bible more thoroughly.

Tape #3a Sin and Atonement 2 and 3

a) He says the main proponent of the theory of blood sacrifice and atonement in the New Testament was Paul who was not a disciple of Jesus or even an eyewitness of Jesus' ministry.

b) Paul was more explicit in his writings about blood sacrifice and atonement than the other writers of the New Testament.

c) Badawi quotes John 1:4 and says that this shows Jesus completed his mission even before any blood atonement was done and that is solid proof that no crucifixion was necessary.

d) James *chapter 2) differed with Paul on atonement and faith and stressed keeping the law and doing works. Badawi tries to pit James 2:24 vs. Paul in Galatians 2:16.

e) Paul assumed human nature (Romans 5:18) was corrupt because of Adam's fall into sin (also Romans 5:12)

f) Badawi says it is not just to condemn people in advance through Adam.

a) We can agree with part of what Dr. Badawi says, that blood atonement was clearly taught in the New Testament in Paul's letters. Note that Dr. Badawi clearly admits this was taught in the New Testament.

However, we find blood atonement in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, and even atonement in Isaiah and other places in the Old Testament.

b) Paul and John were both explicit, because both explained in detail about them. The writer of Hebrews was probably even more explicit though.

c) John 1:4 was indeed written before the account of Jesus' crucifixion. However, anyone should see that Badawi cannot be correct here: John 1:4 was even written before the account of Jesus' birth.

d) Though there is different emphasis, there is no trouble fitting these teaching together. Nothing in James denies we are saved by grace through faith, it is not of ourselves. Paul, who said we are saved to do good works in Ephesians, does not deny James 2, which said that faith without works are dead. Faith is an input to our salvation, and works are an essential output.

e) Badawi's view here seems at variance with standard Sunni theology. While Sunni Islam does not stress the sinfulness of man as much as Christianity, it does acknowledge that all (but Jesus) were touched by Satan in the womb.

f) Badawi apparently misses the point of a key Christian doctrine here. Even though we did inherit a sinful nature, all of us have done enough sinning ourselves. God would be just to send everyone who sinned to Hell. Praise God for His mercy though!

Tape #3b Sin and Atonement 2 and 3

g) How can God be just if he created man imperfectly and then requires us to be perfect. God knows we are not perfect.

h) Badawi says it is not just for an innocent man like Jesus to die for the wicked and guilty. That in and of itself is cruel and unjust.

i) Wouldn't it be more just to forgive the sincere, repentant person seeking forgiveness than to require a blood sacrifice?

j) Badawi says this Pauline theory of atonement which was introduced after the ministry of Jesus is inconsistent with either the divine qualities of God, justice, or mercy.

k) He says the atonement does not work because you do not sacrifice the superior for the inferior. It is always the other way around.

l) It is morally wrong to commit suicide so therefore Jesus would have been morally wrong to be willing to die for our sins.

m) Badawi asks, "Who died on the cross?" Was it God or man? Badawi says God cannot died so it had to be just the man Jesus whose death could not atone for sins.

g) Perhaps an analogy will help here. If people were involuntarily placed on a sinking ship, they might not be responsible for their own death if they drowned. However, if they were told to leave the ship and get on the waiting lifeboat, and the rejected the offer, then their death would be solely their own fault.

h) It was unjust for Jesus to die, but Badawi completely misses the point.

Jesus did not deserve to die, but willfully chose the nails; to deliberately decided to be a victim of injustice for our sake.

i) Badawi has a rather "light" concept of the seriousness of sin and the justice of God. God punishes all sin, not just the sin He wants to punish. God, the just judge, fairly punished our sin, but putting the penalty of the sin on Jesus. Jesus did not deserve it, but Jesus voluntarily chose it. And praised God that He did!

j) First note that Badawi is admitting that the atonement is clearly taught in the New Testament, at least in Paul's letters. However, Badawi is giving Paul more credit than is due. It is not just Pauline, but "Johnine", "Lukan", "Matthean", "Petrine", "Jesus-ine", "John-the-Baptist-ene", and "Isaiah-ene" for this is in the words and writings of all of these men. We have to agree with Badawi though, that the consistent message of Jesus, his apostles, and the Old Testament prophets is inconsistent with the nature of Allah in the Qur'an.

k) Man, who is always looking for a bargain, never knowingly sacrifices something superior for something superior. However, God's ways are not man's ways. God sacrificed Jesus for our sake and Jesus was superior. However, Badawi seeing only a horrible, foolish tragedy of the Biblical doctrine of the crucifixion, is not seeing the wonderful, triumphant vindication of the resurrection.

l) Jesus did not commit suicide because choosing to remain and be martyred is not committing suicide. The Muslim hadiths teach that one who commits suicide goes to Hell. If Badawi believes choosing to remain in a place of certain death is suicide, and sends someone to Hell, would Badawi be willing to say that Husain, Ali's son, was in Hell for refusing to surrender against impossible odds?

m) For Badawi it has to be either God or man, if one refuses to believe in the incarnation as taught in the Bible. But the Bible (including Paul) clearly teaches that Jesus was fully God and fully man. If Badawi wants to criticize Christianity that is one thing. But he should not criticize something that is not Christianity while give the misleading impression that this is Christianity.

Tape #4 Sin and Atonement 4 and 5

a) In his rehashing, Badawi simply will not believe what Paul and other Biblical writers say about the Christ's atonement for sins.

b) Badawi keeps referring to Paul's "innovation", citing particularly Philippians 2. He attacks the deity of Christ as Philippians 2:6 teaches.

c) To attack Jesus' atonement Badawi indicates that Jesus was a sinner on the same level as other pure human beings. He mentions Donnie Moinham's book about Jesus being a sinner.

d) He says Jesus was "sinless" in a sense just as all the prophets, including Mohammed, were sinless, but Jesus still had to deal with human frailties. Therefore Jesus was not sinlessly perfect like God.

e) Badawi says that any of the prophets could have done what Jesus did in the wilderness temptation with the devil (Luke 4 and Matthew 4).

f) Badawi says Jesus and Mohammed were not as good as God is.

g) Since Mohammed was a greater prophet and the last apostle and his blood sacrifice was not necessary then neither was Jesus' sacrifice.

a) Badawi can either try to attack the reliability of the preserved scriptures (and we have handled that), or Badawi can claim the original Gospels were false. This comes very close to denying what Mohammed said about Christians having the scriptures, because orthodox Islamic teaching is that Christians corrupted their scriptures, not that they never had them in the first place.

b) Again, if Paul, Peter, John, Jesus, and Isaiah all have a very similar "innovation", then the "innovator" was the common source for all of these: God.

c) Against Badawi we have Mohammed himself. Mohammed said that unlike all other people, Jesus was not touched by Satan in the womb.

d) Badawi has no support for this, except for some Muslim hadiths. Muslims should be more careful about appealing to the hadiths, as they quote from suras that they say used to be in the Qur'an but were taken out.

e) Muslim sources disagree. They admit the "prophet" Adam sinned, and the prophet Jonah defied God.

The point is not that Jesus did a miracle which is not recorded in the Qur'an that Mohammed did. Badawi is trying to lower the esteem of Jesus because he is just disgusted with the provably ancient Bible teaching that Jesus is God.

f) Jesus was very careful in his use of good, saying "None is good except God alone." Yet In John 10:11 Jesus explicitly called Himself "the good shepherd".

g) Let's look at Badawi's "either-or" argument closely. Badawi assumes the first and concludes the second is false. In this case though, if you assume the second is true, then the first is false. If 1,500 years of Jewish history and the New Testament teach that blood sacrifice was necessary, and Mohammed wrongly said it was not, then Mohammed was a wrong prophet of God. We agree with Badawi that one of these two parts is true and the other must be very, very false.

Tape #5a Sin and Atonement, Crucifixion 1

a) Jesus was not purely sinless, Badawi says. He alleges Jesus is just like the other prophets.

b) Badawi says exclusive language given in the Bible, particularly by John (example John 14:6; 1 and 2 John) is not fair or just because of various reasons such as:

b1) Those who never heard

b2) Babies who die

b3) Those who lived before Jesus

b4) Other devout and sincere religious folks, etc.

c) Badawi says divine truth is not subject to ifs and buts but is imperative. If of course Badawi chooses to believe it.

a) The Qur'an says that Jesus is sinless; and Badawi is trying to redefine the words. Many Muslims today would disagree with Badawi. They would say that Jesus is completely sinless and Mohammed was too.

b1) Badawi needs to know about Romans 4:15 and 5:12l that sin is not counted where there is no law. God judges everyone fairly, though we all have failed even by our own standards (Romans 2). However, just as God could save Enoch, Abraham, and others through Jesus yet prior to Jesus, God is powerful enough and wise enough save through Jesus all who were destined for Heaven.

b2) The Bible says that God is just and merciful. As for babies, the Bible in 2 Samuel suggests that babies who die will go to Heaven.

b3) Now does Badawi seriously think that either the New Testament or any Christian believes Abraham, Moses, David, and others are in Hell because they lived before Jesus? We cannot believe that Badawi would think that of Christians.

b4) God is just to all, but even to the devoutly religious Pharisees, Jesus told them that unless they believed that Jesus was who He claimed to be, they would die in their sins.

John 8:24; 12:47-48; 6:45. See also Acts 3:23.

c) I am not sure if Badawi is aware of Muslim theology here, which also says that babies, who do not know enough to believe a single thing about Mohammed, Allah, or the Qur'an, go to Heaven.

Tape #5b Sin and Atonement, Crucifixion 1

d) Badawi says since Jesus prayed, He cannot be God because this shows his inferiority and Jesus' will was distinct from the Father's meaning Jesus could not be God because there would be two divine wills there. Therefore there must be two gods.

e) Badawi references the Gospel of Barnabas, which he says was discovered in Austria, and which says Jesus was not crucified but someone else was killed in his place. The Gospel of Barnabas says the angels carried Jesus away before crucifixion. Judas was crucified instead. Yet inconsistently, the Gospel of Barnabas ch.193 says that Jesus will also die and be speedily awakened.

f) Badawi dismisses Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament as referring to Christ, his atonement or crucifixion. He says the Psalmist in many cases was praying to be delivered from a violent death, which is the opposite from crucifixion. Badawi says God would have saved Jesus.

g) Badawi cites Mark 15, Matthew 6:27; Luke 23; John 14; Hebrews 2,5 as mentioning Psalm 22, but Badawi says the New Testament writers are wrong here because Psalm 22 is talking about David and his trials with Saul, not a future event.

d) Badawi is repeating what he said previously on package 8 tape 8 point i. Again, we will repeat that it is inconceivable that Jesus would refuse to communicate with God the Father. We can actually partially agree with Dr. Badawi that Jesus would not pray to God the Father as orthodox Muslims generally understand prayer. Christian prayer is not like Muslim ritualistic recitation. It is communication.

e) Badawi must really like this provable forgery, as he is repeating what he said previously in package 8 Tape 3 point d. After Mohammed's time, many Muslims created 100's of thousands of fake hadiths about Mohammed, including that Mohammed said 'Ali was burning in Hell. The Gospel of Barnabas would fall in the category of a fake Hadith or even a fake Sura. Interestingly it denies teaching in both the Qur'an and the Bible.

f) Most Muslims believe without question what the Qur'an states, that Jesus is the Messiah. Yet Badawi wants to downplay that Jesus is the Messiah. This is most interesting, as the Gospel of Barnabas contradicts the Qur'an in saying Jesus was NOT the Messiah, Mohammed was. Actually there is not a single Sura in the Qur'an or hadith in the Bukhari or Sahih Muslim where Mohammed claimed to be the Messiah.

g) While Psalm 22 might have been written under trying circumstances, the description in Psalm 22 goes far beyond what David endured.

Tape #6 The Crucifixion 2 and 3

a) Badawi says the New Testament writers were "obsessed with prophecy"

b) Badawi says the New Testament writers constantly misquoted Old Testament passages to support their unfounded claims about crucifixion and Jesus being God. Badawi quotes Psalm 9, Psalm 10, Psalm 21 to say a "servant of God" would be delivered and not crucified, but the wicked would get the curse (Deuteronomy 21:23) and that would be Judas being crucified and not Jesus.

c) Badawi says Jesus was well-loved by many people so Psalm 69:21 could not be a prophecy about him because of verse 4. Badawi also talks about the sins of the person mentioned in Psalm 69 so John was wrong in John 19:28-29 in referring to Jesus. Badawi says Psalm 69 is more about Judas than Jesus.

d) Badawi says Matthew makes a mistake in facts in Matthew 27:3-10 by quoting Jeremiah when he was actually quoting Zechariah 11:12-13 and therefore Matthew's gospel has mistakes and cannot be trusted.

a) While they were only "obsessed" with truth, I suppose Badawi's viewpoint that they were obsessed with Biblical prophecy about Jesus is similar to some Muslims' obsession with finding Biblical prophecies that "prove" Mohammed. For example, in this series, tape 7 part d, Badawi tries to tell how Mohammed is prophesied in the Bible.

b) Psalm 9, 10, and 21 are not generally given by Christians as proof that Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament. Isaiah 53; Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 22, Micah 5:2; Genesis 49:10 and Daniel 9 are.

c) Jesus being well-loved by His followers does not contradict the fact that He was also intensely hated by many others. Even Dr. Badawi can do better than this!

Also, Psalm 69 is not primarily Messianic anyway.

d) When Matthew presents the prophetic prediction about Judas in the Old Testament he was actually quoting from Jeremiah 32:6-9 and Zechariah 11:12-13. Jeremiah also mentions a potter's field in Jeremiah 18:2, 19:2,11 of which Matthew is not bringing an exact quote from any of these. Matthew is simply quoting the more popular of the prophets which was a common practice in that day. Matthew did the same thing earlier in Matthew 5:2 where he quoted form Micah 5:2 and 2 Samuel 5:2. Badawi is the one who is mistaken and cannot be trusted.

Tape #7 The Crucifixion 4 and 5

a) Again, Badawi says Matthew is "obsessed with prophecies"

b) Badawi tries to dismiss many prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament as not true.

c) Badawi talks about how Mohammed is prophesied in the Bible.

a) Matthew does in fact quote many prophecies about Jesus (and none about Mohammed since there are none.) Badawi starts telling us how Bible writers are obsessed with prophecies starting in tape 5 point f and running all the way through the end of this tape. This must be an important point for him.

b) Badawi fails to tell his audience that:

b1) The Old Testament predicted that Christ would die (Isaiah 53:5-10, Psalm 22:16; Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 12:10) and Jesus fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah. (cf. Matthew 4:14-16; 5:17-18; 8:17, John 5:25-26; 5:39)

b2) Jesus predicted and openly announced his coming death many times (John 2:19-21; 10:10-11; Matthew 12:40; Mark 8:31; Matthew 17:22-23).

b3) All of the predictions of His resurrection, both in the Old Testament (cf. Psalm 16:10; Isaiah 26:18; Daniel 12:2) and in the New Testament (cf. John 2:19-21; Matthew 12:40; 17:22-23) are based on the fact that He would die. Only someone who dies can be resurrected.

c) Badawi appears to want us to believe that the evidence of the Old Testament prophesying Jesus is very weak, and the evidence, for the Old Testament and Gospels prophesying Mohammed is very strong. Even most other Muslims do not try to force the Bible to predict Mohammed.

Tape #8a The Crucifixion 6 and 7

a) Badawi says if something is from God, then it must not have contradictions.

b) Badawi says the New Testament was written around the year 50 A.D.

c) Badawi agrees that the four canonical gospels speak of the crucifixion, but he says the gospel stories are not consistent or authentic.

d) Badawi quotes "many Biblical scholars" (such as Dennis Meinham and John Fenton) who reject the authenticity of the Bible. He says Mark and Luke were not eyewitnesses and Matthew and John were really not written by the actual disciples.

e) As Badawi attacks the Bible he continually refers to Christians as "brethren".

a) We agree with Badawi that truth is not contradictory. However, what is Dr. Badawi to make of the many abrogated verses in the Qur'an? Around 200 verses are considered by various Muslims to be abrogated. The Sahih Muslim hadiths record suras that were taken out of the Qur'an. Even the non-abrogated parts contain many contradictions and inconsistencies. For example, Zul-Karnaim did not discover the "truth" that that the sun sets in a muddy spring in Sura 18:85-86. The Qur'an says the earth was made in 6 days in Sura 7:54; 10:3; 11:7; 25:29. Yet it took 8 days in Sura 41:9-12. Abrogation of verses is spoken of in Sura 2:106 as well as Sahih Muslim vol.1:1433 p.330.

Abraham was the first to believe in Sura 6:14, yet it was Moses who was the first to believe in Sura 7:143.

We could look at Sura 17:1 and more, but suffice it to say that Badawi should apply his test to the Qur'an.

b) We do not know precisely the years various parts were written, but Badawi is correct here for Paul's letters, with the Gospels probably being slightly later.

c) So it would seem that the four accounts, plus the accounts of secular historians, would establish at least that Jesus had a trial and crucifixion.

d) Badawi seems fond of quoting non-Christians as Christians or Bible scholars, as he does in package 8 tape 1 point d, tape 6 point c, tape 7 point c, tape 10 point c, tape 11 h.

We acknowledge that non-Christians can be Bible scholars, but Dr. Badawi should point out that they are non-Christians, rather than letting the listener assume that they are.

e) Why does Badawi calls us brethren, without denouncing warlike Muslims as not true Muslims? On the other hand, our sincere wish is that Dr. Badawi and us were in fact brethren, that Dr. Badawi would know the joy of the real Jesus and gain eternal life.

Tape #8b The Crucifixion 6 and 7

f) Badawi says the story of the crucifixion in the Gospels is inconsistent. Badawi says the Gospels are not authentic because of differing "versions" or accounts in the Gospels relating to:

f1) The anointing of Jesus

f2) Events of the last supper

f3) The last night and the arrest of Jesus

f4) Trial of Jesus

f5) Crucifixion

f6) Burial

f7) What happened to Judas?

f8) Resurrection

f) If he wants to say presenting different details is inconsistent, then that is his definition. Presenting different details does not mean contradictory though. Of course, if we claim it is all consistent, then it is only fair to ask us to show the consistency.

Here is a completely harmonized account of the crucifixion. Items with numbers must follow each other, and items with letters can be in any order.

P24. In Bethany, six days before Passover Jesus attends a feast at Simon the leper's house in his honor, where Mary served. Jesus is anointed, for the second time, by Mary with a pint of nard, worth a year's wages, from an alabaster jar. (Note this is the town where Lazarus lived, not the house.) Judas Iscariot and the disciples complain. Mt 26:6-13; Mk 14:3-9; Jn 12:1-11

P25. Judas talks with priests. Mt 26:14-16; Mk 14:10-11; Lk 22:3-6

P26. On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Thursday), they prepare the Last Supper Mt 26:17-19;Mk 14:12-16; Lk 22:7-13

P27. Jesus washes His disciple's feet Jn 13:1-18

P28. In a large upper room (Mk 14:15), they partake of the Lord's Supper. Mt 26:20-29; Mk 14:17-25; Lk 22:14-23; 1 Cor 11:23-26

P29. Jesus says Judas will betray Him Jn 13:18-28a

P30. Jesus' new command to love one another Jn 13:31-35

P31. In the midst of the last supper, Judas leaves. Jn 13:28b-30

P32. Either at the Last Supper of shortly thereafter, another argument over who is greatest. Lk 22:24-30

P33a1. After Judas left, en route to the Mount of Olives, Jesus predicts Peter will deny Him three times Mt 26:30-35; Mk 14:26-31; Lk 22:31-38; Jn 13:36-38

P33a2. In the Garden of Gethsemane on the Mount of Olives. Mt 26:36-46; Mk 14:32-43a; Lk 22:39-46

P33b. From the Last Supper to the Mount of Olives, Jesus speaks. Jn 14:1-16:33

P34. Jesus' pre-arrest prayer. Jn 17:1-26

P35. After Jesus finishes praying, they cross the Kidron Valley and go into an olive grove. Jn 18:1

P36. Arrest. Mt 26:47-56; Mk 14:43b-52; Lk 22:47-53; Jn 18:2-11

P37a1. In/near the courtyard of the high priest, Jesus is tried by the Sanhedrin. Mt 26:57-68; Mk 14:53-65; Lk 22:66-71; Jn 18:12-14; Jn 18:19-23

P37b. In the courtyard, Peter denies Christ three times. Mt 26:69-75; Mk 14:66-72; Lk 22:54-62; Jn 18:15-18; Jn 18:25-27

P37c. At Akeldama, Judas hangs himself. (the rope broke either before or after he died) Mt 27:1-10; Acts 1:18-19

P37a2. Soldiers mock, beat, and blindfold Jesus. Lk 22:63-65

P38. Jesus' trial before Pilate. Mt 27:11-14; Mk 15:1-15; Lk 23:1-6; Jn 18:28-37

P39. Jesus sent to Herod. Lk 23:7-11a

P40. Jesus sent back to Pilate. Lk 23:11b-12

P41. Pilate appeals to the crowd and releases Barabbas. Mt 27:15-26; Lk 23:13-25; Jn 18:38-40

P42. Roman soldiers flog Jesus and put on Him purple-scarlet rob and crown of thorns. Mt 27:27-31a; Mk 15:16-20a; Jn 19:1-3

P43. Pilate goes out the Jews again. Jn 19:4-15

P44. Jesus is led away to be crucified. Mt 27:31b; Mk 15:20b; Lk 23:26a; Jn 19:16

P45. Jesus [at first] carried His own cross. Jn 19:17a

P46. Simon [then] is made to carry Jesus' cross. Mt 27:32; Mk 15:21; Lk 23:26b

P47. Jesus says, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children..." Lk 23:28-31

P48a. On Golgotha on the third hour [9:00am], Jesus is crucified. Mt 27:33; Mk 15:22,25; Lk 23:33; Jn 19:16b-22

P48b. Wrote the trilingual sign above Jesus' head. Mt 27:37; Mk 15:26; Lk 23:38

P48c. Two criminals are crucified alongside Jesus. Mt 27:38; Mk 15:27; Lk 23:32-33

P49a. Jesus says "Father forgive them...". Lk 23:34a

P49b. Some offer Jesus drink but He refuses. Mt 27:34; Mk 15:23

P49c.Cast lots for clothes. Mt 27:35-36; Mk 15:24; Lk 23:34b; Jn 10:23-24

P50a. Jesus said, "woman here is your son; son here is your mother". Jn 19:25-27

P50b. Others say "He saved others, let him save himself...". Mt 27:40-43; Mk 15:29-30; Lk 23:35a

P50c. Priests mock Jesus too. Mk 15:31-32; Lk 23:35b

P50d. Soldiers mock Jesus on the cross. Lk 23:36-37

P50e. Thief on the left insults Jesus. Mt 27:44; Lk 23:39

P51. Thief on the right defends Jesus .Lk 23:40-43a

P52. Jesus says "...today you will be with me in paradise". Lk 23:43b

P53a. Jesus says, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me". Mt 27:45-47; Mk 34-36

P53b. Jesus says, "I am thirsty" and for the second time is offered drink from a sponge. Mt 27:48; Jn 19:28-29

P53c. Some wait to see if Elijah comes. Mt 27:49

P53d. From about the sixth to the ninth hour, the sun stops shining. Mk 15:33; Lk 23:44-45

P54. Jesus says, "It is finished". Jn 19:30

P55. Right before dying Jesus says, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit". Lk 23:46a

P56. Jesus dies. Mt 27:50; Mk 15:37; Lk 23:46b

P57a. At that moment, the Temple curtain was torn in two. Mt 51a; Mk 15:38-39, (also Thales 52 A.D.)

P57b. An earthquake occurred, tombs broke open and dead people appear. Mt 51b-53.

P58a. Soldiers break thieves' legs, but not Jesus'. Jn 19:31-37

P58b. Centurion says surely this was a righteous man. Lk 23:47-49

P58c. Centurion says "This was the/a Son of God!" Mt 27:54

P58d. Many women were watching. Mt 27:55-56

P59. As evening came, Joseph of Arimathea asks Pilate for the body of Jesus. Mt 27:57-58; Jn 19:38

P60a. In the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, Joseph and Nicodemus buried Christ's body and a stone is rolled over the tomb. Mt 27:59-61; Mk 15:42-47; Lk 23:50-54; Jn 19:39-42

P60b. Before the Sabbath, the women get spices. Lk 23:55-56

P60c. Pilate agrees to a guard of soldiers at the tomb. Mt 27:62-65

P61. The put a seal on the tomb and post a guard. Mt 27:66

R1a. When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, the other Mary [the mother of James], Salome, and the women start to travel to the tomb. Mt 281b; Mk 16:1-3; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1

R2a. There was an earthquake as the angel hurled away the stone. The guards became like dead men. Mt 28:2-4

R2b. The angel hurled away the stone. Mk 16:4; Lk 24:2

R1b. No body found, and two "men" speak to the women. Lk 24:3-8; Jn 20:2

R3. The morning that Jesus rose, an angel appears to the women and tells them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee. Mt 28:5-7; Mk 16:5-8

R4a. While the women were hurrying back, Jesus also appears to the women and tells them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee. Mt 28:8-10

R4b1. When the women returned from the tomb, the disciples do not believe the women. Lk 24:9-11

R4b2. Peter and John run to the tomb, John gets there first. Lk 24:12; Jn 20:3-9

R4b3. Then the disciples return to their homes [in Jerusalem]. Jn 20:10

R4c. The guards tell the priests; priests bribe them. Mt 28:11-15

R4d. As Mary wept, two men, and then Jesus, appear to Mary Magdalene. Mk 16:9-11; Jn 20:11-18

R5. The same day on the road to Emmaus, Jesus appears to two disciples (not of the eleven disciples). He stays with them until evening. Mk 16:12; Lk 24:13-29

R6. Immediately the two disciples rushed back to Jerusalem (7 miles away) and tells the 11 disciples. Mk 16:13; Lk 24:33-35

R7. In Jerusalem, the evening of the same day that Jesus rose, while the two are talking to the disciples, Jesus appears, 1st time, to ten disciples. Jn 20:19-23

R8. Other disciples tell Thomas they have seen Jesus. Jn 20:25

Tape #9 The Crucifixion 8, Resurrection 1

a) Badawi says Jesus cannot pray to God and die for the sins of the world at the same time - he says they both cannot be true at the same time.

b) Badawi says Jesus' disciples would never have run away as the Gospels say. Badawi says if Peter used his sword, why wasn't he arrested? If the disciples ran away then they would not be witnesses of the crucifixion and the resurrection.

c) Badawi says the New Testament Gospels are not authentic and not written by those who were closest to Jesus.

d) Badawi does not like the fact that the Gospels say Jesus was resurrected.

e) Badawi does not like "variations" from Gospel to Gospel and he says this makes them untrue and false.

a) Jesus not communicating with God is a real problem in Badawi's mind. He also mentions it in Package 8 tape 8 point i, and this package (9) tape 5 point d. We can agree that Jesus, being God, did not perform any Muslim rakah's.

But is it really likely that Jesus never attempted to communicate with the Father?

b) Given their fear, why wouldn't the disciples in a weak moment flee? It would be hard to arrest Peter if, the evidence of the slave's ear was no longer there, and Peter had fled anyway. They would be witnesses of the crucifixion because they did not flee very far. Many would see the crucifixion and they could blend in with the crowd easily.

c) Badawi, however, fails to provide evidence of any early manuscripts of the so-called Jesus disciples who would substantiate his claims that Jesus was not crucified or resurrected. The best Badawi can do is refer to a Medieval forgery, in Italian of all things. (The Italian language did not exist in Jesus' time.) Badawi simply says "eyewitnesses were not there." (but then - where were they?)

d) Badawi has no basis for rejecting the resurrection, except the word of the man he wants to follow to the grave: Mohammed.

e) However, if we take 10 intelligent Muslim students and ask each of them to write a two-page history of Mohammed, will their written histories match perfectly? If they do not, does that mean that what they all say about Mohammed is untrue? In a Court of Law one looks at rules of evidence.

Tape #10a Resurrection 2 and 3

a) Badawi simply does not believe anything the New Testament says about events, doctrine, etc. that disagree with his preconceived beliefs.

b) Badawi argues against the Gospel records of the resurrection:

b1) Why would Mary Magdalene want to take away the body of Jesus?

b2) Why would Mary think Jesus was the gardener? Badawi says Jesus disguised himself.

b3) When Jesus says He has not yet ascended to His Father that means he has not died yet.

b4) Jesus said he was going to ascend to your God and my God. Badawi says that proves Jesus could not be God.

b5) Badawi says Jesus could not become flesh again after his death because this would mean perhaps Hinduism and their doctrine of reincarnation is true.

b6) Badawi says the Gospels are consistent in their agreement that Jesus predicted his death and resurrection and that the disciples did not believe it at the time, but Badawi says that it is unlikely the disciples did not believe and says this is probably not a true account.

a) One would like to ask Badawi: after every objection here, and in his other tapes, is satisfactorially answered, would he then believe?

b1) A simple reading of the gospel accounts shows that Mary came to give the body a proper wrapping with spices. She was not planning on dragging the body anywhere.

b2) She was so surprised, she could not think that this man was Jesus. Not recognizing his identity immediately was probably no miracle. Rather, in the dim light of dawn a man covered with a clothing might not so easily be recognized as Jesus, whom Isaiah 53 says looked like a plain man.

b3) Badawi is incorrect here. If he were correct, Jesus would be saying, "do not hold on to me, because I am still alive." Ascended means ascended. For Badawi to prove his speculation, he needs to find examples where ascended merely means died. Otherwise anyone can define any word to mean anything they want.

b4) No, because the word "God" has different ranges of meaning in the Bible: sometimes it refers to God the Father as it does here, sometimes it refers to Jesus, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, and sometimes it refers to the Trinity. In Hebrews 1:8-9 it refers to the Father the second time the word "God" is used and Jesus the first time the word "God" is used. Likewise in John 1:1 it refers to the Father the first time it is used, and Jesus the second time it is used.

b5) This is interesting because Islam and the Qur'an itself says that people will be physically resurrected. Perhaps Badawi is deviating from Islam a little here. Sura 2:243 says, "...Allah said to them: 'Die': Then He restored them to life."

b6) He admits the Gospels are consistent in:

a) Prediction of Jesus' death

b) Prediction of Jesus' resurrection

c) Prediction that the disciples would run away

Yet he states this is wrong, solely on the basis that in his opinion the disciples would not run away.

Badawi rejects something only because it does not fit his preconceptions.

Tape #10b Resurrection 2 and 3

c) Badawi says Christians added material later, after the fact, into the histories of Josephus.

d) Badawi quotes the Gospel of Nicodemus as saying Jesus, after his death, went to Hell and got Adam, Abraham, and other prophets and took them to Paradise. Badawi says this is just as contradictory as the Gospel accounts.

e) The resurrection account of Jesus is just a legend of myth and is not true.

c) At least some phrases probably were added in a Syriac translation of Josephus. However, the reason we know that is that we can cross-check it with a different, Arabic translation of Josephus.

d) Someone could likewise quote the spurious hadiths too, but that would tell no more about the authentic Mohammed than the Gospel of Nicodemus tells about the authentic Jesus.

e) The resurrection of Jesus is a well-documented fact of ancient history. Besides the Bible writers, it is referred to by:

Clement of Rome 97/98 A.D.

Papias 110-130 A.D.

Ignatius died 107 or 116 A.D.

Polycarp died c.163 A.D.

Irenaeus 120/140-202 A.D.

The Didache 120-150 A.D.

Justin Martyr 138-165 A.D.

Theophilus of Antioch 168-181/188 A.D.

Others

Badawi needs to come up with sources that denied the resurrection, other than Medieval forgeries.

Is Badawi's alternative more reasonable??? One might falsely think Badawi's rejection of the resurrection is due to general skepticism. Yet this is not the case, for Badawi (and most Muslims) think Jesus did in fact appear to be crucified, but Allah miraculously substituted someone (usually thought to be Judas) and miraculously gave them the physical appearance of Jesus, not only fooling Jesus' enemies, but fooling his loyal followers as well.

Tape #11 Roots of "God Incarnate" 1 and 2

a) Badawi quotes liberals and unbelievers who attack the Bible.

b) Badawi says the idea of Jesus being "God Incarnate" is based on ancient tribal myths, legends, pagan creeds, and philosophy.

c) Badawi lists many stories, such as stories about Baal and sun gods, Buddhist stories, and he says myths have no historical basis. Of course the Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical myth, but they are well-documented now.

d) Badawi appears oblivious of the similarity fallacy in logic.

a) We are OK with Badawi quoting people with different beliefs, but we have a problem when Badawi falsely calls them Christian or implies they are Christian.

b) If one wants to talk about tribal myths and legends, one can make a much stronger case for the circumambulation of the Ka'aba, pilgrimages, and worship of Allah (including his daughters) prior to Mohammed. If the Old Testament is from the time of Abraham and Jesus (and it is), then Badawi's problem is not just with this doctrine, but thinking God failed to preserve the entire Bible.

c) If you look hard enough, we are sure you can find similarities and counterfeits to almost anything. We do not know if Badawi is aware of the body of modern scholarly literature linking the teachings of Islam to prior Zoroastrianism and heretical Christian sects.

d) If remote similarities do not prove anything, then he has no case. If medium similarities prove copying from pagan sources, the Dr. Badawi has just disproved the Qur'an!

Tape #12 Roots of "God Incarnate" 3 and 4

a) Badawi admits that the Gospels teach what they teach but he says these Biblical teachings come from myths.

b) Badawi offers the Samaritan theory which states that the Samaritans did not believe in anything in the Bible past Joshua and were under the influence of various pagan beliefs. The so-called writers of the Gospels were under this Samaritan influence which also had ties to belief systems associated with the Occultist Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-25).

c) Badawi clearly admits what the New Testament is teaching on many things - crucifixion, resurrection, Jesus being the "Son of God", Jesus being God, etc. but he does not believe any of it.

d) Badawi admits that he must assume the Bible is false if the Qur'an is to be considered true.

a) Similar myths have been found for some of the stories in the Qur'an, such as Jesus speaking as a baby. Badawi needs to find examples, not of myths, but of myths that were before the similar part of the New or Old Testament was written. Even where there are myths with similarities, such as a worldwide flood, one would expect people to come up with stories to try to explain cataclysmic events.

b) Samaritans and Sadducees (religious liberals) did not accept the writings of the prophets, such as Isaiah, David, Solomon etc. Badawi failed to establish how the Gospel writers were influenced in any way by Samaritans. He mentions Simon Magus, presumably because he is a Samaritan, but does not tie this into anything the gospel writers (or for that manner Mohammed) said.

c) He does not believe it because of "prior theological commitment" to the Qur'an, but at least we all see that the New Testament teaches those things.

d) This is actually an important point that Badawi admits. Having read the Bible as much as he apparently has, he agrees that if the Bible is from God and its message was preserved without significant corruption, then the Qur'an must be false. The Bible has to be corrupt for there to be any possibility that the Qur'an is true.

Tape #13 Roots of "God Incarnate" 5 and 6

a) Badawi says historic Christian doctrines were plausible in ancient times but not now.

b) Badawi says Simon Magus of Acts 8 (a Samaritan) introduced incarnational theology into Christianity.

c) Badawi offers up more theories about the roots of Christianity such as "divine men" and "ruler cults" going on about the same time as the start of Christianity, and the New Testament writers simply bought into this idea of Jesus being a "God-man". Badawi's "logic" tells him - guilt by association or time frame.

a) In English there is a slang expression to describe Dr. Badawi's opinion: This is like the pot calling the kettle black. Badawi accepts the hadiths as being authoritative. The hadiths speak of Mohammed splitting the moon in two, Gabriel physically hurting Mohammed, Mohammed being bewitched, and there being abrogated suras in the Qur'an. Liberals who deny historic Christian doctrines typically deny the virgin birth and sinlessness of Christ, yet Badawi accepts those things, as well as the fact that Jesus performed many miracles. In fact, it is not the miracles of Jesus he objects to, so much as the crucifixion, resurrection, the Trinity, and Jesus being called God.

b) That is just as ludicrous as saying "Dr. Badawi told Mohammed what to put in the Qur'an." Most of the apostles never met Simon Magus, and Jesus accepted worship as God and was called God long prior to Simon Magus. Dr. Badawi needs to do better than to just "go fishing" for objections with a total lack of evidence.

c) Manicheans, a sun cult, and some mystery religions might have started up in the centuries before and after Jesus Christ. Of course strange Muslims offshoots, unrecognizable to many Muslims, started after Mohammed too. That does not prove anything about the Islam or Mohammed though, and it is difficult to understand why Dr. Badawi thinks that proves anything about early Christianity.

God being a ruler is in both the Old Testament as well as the Qur'an, so a "ruler cult" after Christianity and prior to Islam, would be something a person could accuse Islam of borrowing from, not Christianity. However, we will not accuse Islam from borrowing from little known ruler cults, since we do not have the evidence of that. It would be simpler, and he could have made fewer tapes, if Dr. Badawi would only accuse Christianity of things for which he has some evidence.

Tape #14 Roots of "God Incarnate" 7 and 8

a) Badawi loves to says "some scholars say" and then he tries to construe from this that Christianity is based on -re-Greek and Hellenistic sources going from Philo to Paul, especially with the Greek word logos.

b) Badawi tries to tie heretical teachings from the Book of Enoch to Bible writings.

c) Badawi is rehashing his mention of Herbert W. Armstrong in package 8 tape 1 point d. Badawi calls Herbert W. Armstrong a scholar and says Jesus was just a man - Sura 9:30.

d) He mentions pagan origins of Christmas and Easter.

a) Admittedly the idea that God had a word is present in Greek philosophy. Of course, long prior to the classical Greeks, Genesis 1 says that God created by His word.

By the way, Badawi in his zeal to accuse Christianity apparently forgot that the Qur'an also says Jesus is Allah's word.

b) The Book of Enoch probably has some truth in it, just as anyone can write a book of falsehood and puts a few verses of the Bible in too.

By the way, the Book of Enoch is a composite book, with five different sections probably by different authors.

c) In Badawi calling Herbert W. Armstrong a Christian scholar, Badawi "forgot" to mention that Armstrong was a heretic. He was a Christian just as much as the worshippers of Mohammed are Muslims.

d) Between the Greeks, Romans, and Germans, there was some kind of celebration nearly every day of the year. Now Easter coincides with the Jewish Passover, so that is not pagan. Christmas was never a pagan festival. It coincided with the Roman festival called Saturnalia, but that was probably because slaves were given temporary freedom then, and many early Christians in Rome were slaves. Badawi seems to be viewing the world "through only one eye" again, as he fails to mention that the Meccans prior to Mohammed celebrated what are now called "Muslim" festivals and performed four of the five pillars of Islam.

Tape #15 An Islamic Perspective on the Question of Mystery

a) Badawi says the Bible is wrong and for Muslims the truth is:

a1) You cannot know that you are saved until the end

a2) You must attain salvation with Allah by good deeds, not just a faith in Jesus and salvation by grace as the Bible teaches, according to Badawi.

a3) Allah does not forgive those who have "partners" with God (i.e. believe in the Trinity)

a4) Badawi says there are two conditions for salvation:

a4a) You must have a right belief in God (no "partners with God")

a4b You must have good deeds

b) Badawi says "Muslims are not obsessed with sin and atonement like Christians."

c) Badawi says the Trinity is based on unfounded "experience".

a1) For Muslims, even Mohammed trembled at the thought of his torment in the grave according Sahih Muslim vol.1:1214 p.290. Badawi in a way is correct for religions manufactured by men to reach up to heaven.

However, God's children have God's promises that He will preserve them, in His strength.

a2) For Muslims and people in other religions, you do good deeds, in order to get saved by your own effort. People in various religions hope to be able to say to God, "I deserve to go to your Heaven." Christians do good works, not to get saved, but out of gratitude for God's effort of saving you. We do not demand God save us, but are grateful for His grace and mercy in doing so.

a3) If Jesus Himself appeared to them, and told them God is the Father, Himself, and the Holy Spirit, even then would they refuse Jesus?

a4a) You do have to believe correctly on the essentials. You must not deny and reject the Trinity, because the Trinity is true.

a4b) Again, Badawi thinks your own good deeds get you saved. No, nobody's good deeds are good enough to get saved. Yes, God wants you to do good deeds, but it is God's grace and mercy that saves you; not your own merit.

b) Given the legitimizing of rape in Muslim lands, the violence, even against fellow Muslims, it is safe to say that Badawi is right, many Muslims are not too concerned with sin and atonement.

c) The Trinity is based on God's word. If he disagrees with the Trinity, as least he could do Christians the courtesy of accurately presenting the reasons why Christians have believed and suffered for the Trinity.

Tape #16 Authority and Authenticity of Scriptures 1 and 2

a) Badawi agrees that our Bible and his Qur'an cannot both be true.

b) The Bible is supposedly full of contradictions and the Qur'an supposedly is not.

c) Badawi says the Bible is man-made because it does not always say "God said".

d) Badawi trashes the New Testament and quotes from the Jehovah's Witness publication Awake! to utilize additional attacks against Christianity.

e) Badawi brings up copyist errors in the Bible and the genealogy of Jesus mentioned in both Luke and Matthew.

a) We agree that Badawi is correct on this point; one of them must be false.

b) All the alleged contradictions we have heard are explained at www.BibleQuery.org. In contrast, Muslims cannot explain how Mohammed took a night journey to the mosque in Jerusalem (which was not built until after his death), Zul Qarnain discovered that the sun set in a muddy spring, the earth was created in 6 days, no, that was 8 days, in a way that cannot be reconciled. Haman who lived in Esther's time did not travel back in time to Moses' time, etc.

c) Badawi is trying to restrict God from being able to use a human element in the Bible. As a matter of fact though, the Qur'an clearly has some verses that could not be said directly by Allah. While that does not disprove the Qur'an, it invalidates Dr. Badawi's argument.

d) We can quote what Hindus say about Islam too, but that would no more invalidate Islam than Dr. Badawi quoting Jehovah's Witness publications would invalidate Christianity.

e) Jesus had not one but two genealogies. His biological genealogy through Mary is in Luke, and his legal right through his stepfather Joseph is in Matthew. There are copyist errors in the Qur'an, as well as missing suras too.

This is the end of this volume: Package 9

"Series K. Jesus Beloved Messenger of Islam - Part 2 by Jamal A. Badawi"

Islamic Information Foundation. Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Typed up parts

Sura 2:36 "Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden) and get out of the state of (felicity) in which they had been. We said: 'Get ye down all (ye people) with enmity among yourselves; o earth will be your dwelling place, and your means of livelihood for a time."

In the commentary of the Jalalayn it says: "We said: 'Get ye down' to the earth; that is, you and your offspring still contained within you. 'among yourselves' means some of your offspring will harbor enmity for some others because of your oppression towards each other."

Yes, God did accept his Adam's repentance and forgave him (according to the Qur'an - see verse 5:37, but neither Adam nor his descendants were able to return to paradise nor even to find it again. Since then suffering, misery, and hostility have dominated man's life.

'Abdullah Yusuf 'Ali comments on this verse "Evidently Adam is the type of all mankind and the sexes go together in all spiritual matters."

Sura 7:172-173 says: "When God drew forth from children of Adam - from his loins - their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves (saying): 'Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you?' They said: 'Yes! We do testify! This lest you should say on the day of judgment: 'Of this we were never mindful.' Or lest you should say: 'Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?'"

The commentary of Jalalayn interprets this as: "He [God] drew forth each one of them from the loins of the other back to Adam, generation after generation in the form they will take when they are born. They were so numerous like the ants in Nu'man [a mountain] in the day of 'Arafa. He erected in front of them the evidences of His deity and installed in them

Brains and made them testify concerning themselves.

Muhammad Farid Wagdi's commentary on these verses says, "Remember that your God drew forth from the loins of the children of Adam their offspring in the same form they will take (when they are born) century after century and erected in front of them the evidences of His deity and installed in their brains the capacity to make them recognize these evidences. Thus they were elevated to the level of those who were told: 'Am I not your Lord?' They said, 'Yes.' Thus their full knowledge of it and their being deeply rooted in it made them, so to speak, witnesses, lest they say in the Day of Judgment: 'Of this (that is, their knowledge of God) we were never mindful." Or they say: 'Our fathers have taken false gods, thus we followed them. Wilt thou destroy us because of the deeds of the futile people?'"

'Abdullah Yusuf 'Ali says in his interpretation "The words of the text refer to the descendents of Adam; i.e., to al humanity, born or unborn, without any limit of time. Adam's seed carries on the existence of Adam and succeeds to his spiritual heritage. Humanity as such has a corporate aspect."

Ibn 'Abbas said "God took the pledge from the loins of Adam in Nu'man; i.e., 'Arafa. He drew forth all his posterity which He created and dispersed them in His presence like ants. He talked to them and said: 'Am I not your Lord? They said: 'Yes, we testify!' Lest they say in the Day of Judgment, 'Of this (i.e., the knowledge of God) we were never mindful."

Ibn 'Abbas also said

"In the beginning when God cast Dam to earth He sent him to a desert in the land of India. Then he rubbed his loins and drew forth every soul he decided to create until the Day of Judgment. That took place in Nu'man which is behind mount 'Arafa. God then talked to them and enabled them to speak. He took from them the pledge that they will worship him and never associate anything with Him. (He did that) after He installed in them brains and granted for them their sustenance and determined the length of their life-span, their afflictions, and so forth. Then He replaced them in Adam's loins. Thus the Day of Judgment will never come until everyone who gave his pledge is born. (See also Al-Khazin II: 191.)

Abu Hurayra also said:

"Thus Adam disobeyed and his descendants disobeyed likewise. Adam forgot and ate from the tree; likewise his offspring also forgot. Adam sinned and his posterity sinned too!" (Quoted by Tirmidhi and others.)

"It is obvious from these verses, interpretations and traditions that Adam is recognized by Muslims as the representative of his offspring and that the Qur'an alludes to this." (p.6)

In Sahih al-Bukhari (vol.3:1213 no.3156) there is further evidence of the veracity of this interpretation.

"We were told on the authority of Qays Ibn Hafasa... on the authority of Muhammad that God says to the one who suffers least among the people of hell: 'If you possess all the wealth of the world with which to redeem (yourself, would you do that?)" He said, 'Yes.' Then God said, 'I had asked something which is much easier than this while you were still in the loins of Adam: Not to associate other gods with Me. Yet you have refused and worship false gods."

What happened to this posterity which pledged to worship God and not to associate others with Him so that it failed to fulfill its promise and broke its pledge?

All human beings continue to repeat Adam's sin of rebellion against the known will of God?

There is another tradition ascribed to Muhammad based on the authority of 'Abdullah which says:

"Whenever a soul is killed unjustly the first son of Adam (Cain) would bear part of its blood (responsibility) because he was the first who decreed assassinations (al-Bukhari vol.3:3157. See also vol.3:6473 and vol.3:6890.)

Thus if Cain according to Muhammad, was morally responsible for every soul unjustly killed, why should not Adam be responsible for bequeathing the fallen nature of man to his seed?

Sura 5:32 "On that account we ordained for the children of Israel that if any one slew a person -- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -- it would be as if he slew the whole people; and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people."

'Ali explains: "To kill or seek to kill an individual because he represents an ideal is to kill all who uphold the ideal. On the other hand, to save an individual life in the same circumstances is to save a whole community."

"He who knew no sin was made to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ( 2 Corinthians 5:25)

"He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness." (1 Peter 2:24)

"And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin." (1 John 3:5)

"... without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." (Hebrews 9:22)

Christ Himself said publicly: "For this reason the Father loves me because I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from me, but I lay it down on my own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. (John 10:17-18).

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have everlasting life."

- - - - -

Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. p.39-40

Society in pre-Islamic Central Arabia was organized around the tribe, and each tribe had its principal deity, which was worshipped in a fixed sanctuary even by the wandering nomads. The deity resided in a stone and was not necessarily in human form. Sometimes the sacred stone was a statue or sometimes imply a big block of rock whose shape resembled a human. The heathen Arabs evidently imagined that the block of stone that served as a fetish was pervaded by a divine power and, in its turn, exercised a divine influence.

The names of the two hills, As Safa and al-Marwa signify a stone, that is, an idol. Pagans ran between the two hills in order to touch and kiss Isaf and Naila, the idols, placed there as a means of acquiring luck and good fortune.

THE SACRED BLACK STONE AND HUBAL

We have evidence that black stones were worshipped in various parts of the Arab world; for example, Clement of Alexandria, writing ca. 190, mentioned that "the Arabs worship stone," alluding to the black stone of Dusares at Petra, Maximum Tyrius writing in the second century says, "The Arabians pay homage to I know not what god, which they represent by a quadrangular stone", he alludes to the Kaaba that contains the Black Stone. Its great antiquity is also attested by the fact that ancient Persians claim that Mahabad and his successor left the Black Stone in the Kaaba, along with other relics and images, and that the stone was an emblem of Saturn.

In the vicinity of Meccas are various other sacred stones that were originally fetishes, "but have acquired a superficially Muhammad character by being brought into connection with certain holy persons." [Moldeke Ancient Arabs vol.1 p.659]

The Black Stone itself is evidently a meteorite and undoubtedly owes its reputation to the fact it fell from the "heavens." It is doubly ironic that Muslims venerate this piece of rock as that given to Ishmael by the angel Gabriel to build the Kaaba, as it is, to quote Margoliouth, "of doubtful genuineness, since the Black Stone was removed by the ... Qarmatians in the fourth [Muslim] century, and restored by them after many years: it may be doubted whether the stone which they returned was the same as the stone which they removed." [Margoliouth Ideas and Idols of Modern Islam, p.241]

Hubal was worshipped at Mecca, and his idol in red carnelian was erected inside the Kaaba above the dry well into which one threw votive offerings. It is very probable that Hubal had a human form. Hubal's position next to the Black Stone suggests there is some connection between the two. Wellhausen thinks that Hubal originally was the Black Stone that, as we have already remarked, as more ancient than the idol. Wellhausen also points out that God is called Lord of the Kaaba, and Lord of the territory of Mecca in the Koran. The Prophet railed against the homage rendered at the Kaaba to the goddesses al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza, whom the pagan Arabs called the daughters of God, but Muhammad stopped short of attacking the cult of Hubal. From this Wellhausen concludes that Hubal is no other than Allah, the "god" of the Meccans. When the Meccans defeated the Prophet near Medina, their leader is said to have shouted, "Hurrah for Hubal."

Circumambulation of a sanctuary was a very common rite practiced in many localities. The pilgrim during his circuit frequently kissed or caressed the idol. Sir William Muir thinks that the seven planetary circuits of the Kaaba "were probably emblematical of the revolutions of the planetary bodies." [Muir The Life of Muhammad.] While Zwemer goes so far as to suggest that the seven circuits of the Kaaba, three times rapidly and four times slowly were "an imitation of the inner and outer planets." [Zwemer, The Influence of Animism on Islam, p.158]

It is unquestionable that the Arabs "at a comparatively late period worshipped the sun and other heavenly bodies" [Noldeke, Ancient Arabs vol.1 p.660] The constellation of the Pleiades, which was supposed to bestow rain, appears as a deity. There was the cult of the planet Venus which was revered as a great goddess under the name of al-Uzza. ...

The Muslim rites of running between Arafat and Muzdalifah, and Muzdalifah and Mina had to be accomplished after sunset and before sunrise. This was a deliberate change introduced by Muhammad to suppress the association with the pagan solar rite,... The worship of the moon is also attested to by proper names of people such as Hilal, a crescent, Qamar, a moon, and so on.

Houtsma [Zwemer p.160] has suggested that the stoning that took place in Mina was originally directed at the sun demon. This view is lent plausibility by the fact that the pagan pilgrimage originally coincided with the autumnal equinox. The sun demon is expelled, and his harsh rule comes to an end with the summer, which is followed by the worship, at Muzdalifah, of the thunder god who brings fertility.

Muzdalifah was a place of fire worship. Muslim historians refer to this hill as the hill of the holy fire. The god of Muzdalifah was Quzah, the thunder god. As Wensinck says: "A fire was kindled on the sacred hill also called Quzah. Here a halt was made and this wukuf has a still greater similarity to that on Sinai, as in both cases the thunder god is revealed in fire. It may be further be presumed that the traditional custom of making as much noise as possible and of shouting was originally a sympathetic charm to call forth the thunder. [Zwemer p.159]

- - - - -

Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. p.35

"The works of Ignaz Goldziher and Henri Corbin on the influence of Zoroastrianism on Islam; the works of Geiger, Torrey, and Katsch on the influence of Judaism; Richard Bell's pioneering work on the influence of Christianity; the work of Wellhausen, Noldeke, Hurgronje, and Robertson Smith on the influence of Sabianism and pre-Islamic Arabia; and the work of Arthur Jeffery on the foreign vocabulary in the Koran, all combine to make us concur with Zwemer's conclusions that Islam "is not an invention, but a concoction; there is nothing novel about it except the genius of Mohammad in mixing old ingredients into a new panacea for human ills and forcing it down by means of the sword." [Islam: A Challenge to Faith by Samuel Zwemer, New York 1908]

"for example in sura 113: "In the name of the merciful and compassionate God, Say 'I seek refuge in the Lord of the Daybreak, from the evil of what He has created; and from the evil of the night when it comes on; and from the evil of the witches who blow upon knots, and from the evil of the envious when he envies.'"

Islam owes many of its most supersititous details to old Arabian paganism especially in the rites and rituals of the Pilgrimage to Mecca (see suras 2.153; 22.28-30; 5.1-4; 22.37). We can also find traces of paganism in the names of certain old deities (suras 53.19,20; 71.22,23): in the superstitions connected with jinns; and in old folk tales such as those of Ad and Thamud.

- - - - -

Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. p.36-37

FIRST FIVE DAYS [Hajj Pilgrimage]

When the pilgrim first arrives at a point several miles outside Mecca, he prepares himself so that he is in a state of ritual purity or state of consecration. AFter donning simple pilgrim's dress and performing the necessary ablutions and prayers, the pilgrim enters the sacred precincts of Mecca, where he is expected to abstain from killing animals, tearing up plants, indulging in violence, and taking part in sexual intercourse. He makes further ablutions and prayers at the sacred mosque of Mecca, al-Masjid al-Haram; then he kisses the sacred Black Stone, which is set within the eastern corner of the Kaaba, the cubelike building in the center of the roofless courtyard of the Sacred Mosque.

The pilgrim then turns to the right and circumambulates the Kaaba seven times, three times at a quick pace, and four times at a slow pace. Each time he passes around the Kaaba he touches the Yamani corner, where another auspicious stone is encased, and also kissed the sacred Black Stone.

The pilgrim then proceeds to the Maqam Ibrahim (the place of Abraham), where Abraham is said to have prayed toward the Kaaba. He performs two further prayers and returns to the Black Stone and kisses it. Nearby is the sacred well of Zem Zem, where according to Muslim tradition Hagar and Ishmael drank in the wilderness. The pilgrims move on to an enclosure known as the al-Hijr, where Muslims believe that Hagar and Ishmael are buried, and where Muhammad himself is said to have slept on the night of his miraculous journey from Mecca to Jerusalem."

- - - - -

Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq. p.36-37

SIXTH TO TENTH DAY

The pilgrim leave sthe sacred mosque by one of its twunty-four gates. Outside, he climbs the gentle hill known as Mt. As Safa, all the while reciting verses from the Koran. He then runs from the top of As Safa to the summit of al-Marwah seven times, repeating various prayers. This ... ritual commemorates Hagar's putative search for water in the wilderness.

This is the sixth day of the pilgrimmage; the evening is spent at Mecca where he goes around the Kaaba once more. On the seventh day, he listens to an oration in the Great Mosque, and then, on the eighth he proceeds to Mina, where he performs the usual services of the Muslim ritual and remains the night. On the ninth day, after morming prayers, thepilgrim proceeds to Mount Arafat where the rite of "standing" (wuquf, in Arabic) is performed. According to Muslim tradition, Adam and Even met here after their fall from Paradise. Here the pilgrim recites the usual prayers andlistens to another oration on the theme of repentance. He then hurries (the Arabic word means "stampede") to Muzdalifah, a place between Mina and Arafat, where he is required to arrive for the sunset prayer.

The next day, the tenth, is the Day of Sacrifice, celebrated throughout the Muslims word as Id 'I-Azha. Early in the morning in Muzdalifah, the worshipers say their prayers and move on to the three pillars in Mina. The pilgrim casts seven stones at each of these pillars, the ceremony being called ramyu 'r rijam, the casting of stones. "Holding the pebble between the thumb and forefinger of the right hand, the pilgrim throws it at a distance of not less than fifteen feet, and says, "In the name of God, the Almighty, I do this, and in hatred of the devil and his shame.'" The remaining pebbles are thrown in the same way. He then returns and performs the sacrifice of a goat or lamb. After the feast, the pilgrims celebrate the rite of deconsecration, when many pilgrims shave their head or simply have a few locks clipped.

Muslims rationalize this particular superstition as symbolizing Abraham's repudiation of the devil, who tried to keep the great patriarch from his divinely commanded duty of sacrificing his greatly cherished son Ishmael. The sacrifice of a lamb or goat simply commemorates the divine substitution of a ram for Abraham's sacrifice."

The Pagan Origins of the Hajj Pilgrimage

Over a Ten Day Period

1) Visit and kiss a sacred black stone

2) Touch the Yamani corner where another stone is encased

3) Return and kiss the black stone again

4) Climb a stony hill known as Mount As Safa to the rocky summit of Al-Marway

5) Return to the stone Kaaba again to pace around it where the sacred stone is.

6) On the ninth day Muslims climb the stony and rocky Mount Arafat to do rituals.

7) The Tenth day, "The Day of Sacrifice", Muslims go to the three stone pillars in Mina and pick up 21 stones to throw at the stone pillars, seven stones for each pillar.

Worshipping a Dead Religion ("Stone Dead")

1) The lie of the landscape is dry and barren

2) The Kaaba is made of stone

3) Kissing a "sacred" black stone

4) Throwing "stones" at the devil.

5) In Jerusalem, the Muslim shrine, "The Rock of the Dome"

6) In Medina, Muslims visit the Tomb of Fatima (daughter of Mohammed), Mohammed's tomb, Mohammed's uncle's tomb, as well as other graves.

7) Muslims are constantly venerating dead and lifeless objects such as stones and tombs. This symbolically betrays the lifeless character of this religion. Islam is a lifeless and dead religion when it comes to a true and living relationship with the living God of the Universe."

Christian Debater™ P.O. Box 144441 Austin, TX 78714