What Early Christians Taught – and Muslim Responses These are notes from a friendly public discussion with a moderate Sunni Muslim leader and myself, an evangelical Christian, the morning of April 24, 2007. The day before I had presented evidence that the Qur’an and Islam were wrong. Some Muslims in the audience said they did not come to hear that, but what Christianity taught, so the next day we agreed to shift gears and discuss that. But, as we had discussed the day before, there were many things that claimed to be Islam or follow Mohammed, and many things that claimed to be Christianity. Which should we compare? For Islam we would focus on what Mohammed taught in the Qur’an and six authoritative hadiths. For Christianity we would focus on what the Bible and the early followers of Jesus taught. The following are among 220 doctrines and practices that four or more early Christians writers taught prior to the 325 A.D. Council of Nicea, and none denied. You can see who taught each doctrine at www.biblequery.org/ChurchHistory.htm.The numbers are the end teal color are the number of early Christians whose preserved writings contain these doctrines. After giving a description of a doctrine, the words in purple are his response of where as a Sunni Muslim he agreed, disagreed, or partially agreed. The black bold are also where he agreed. The responses were written down by me, but it was seen on the overhead, and he corrected where what I wrote was not his intention. The parts in square brackets [], are where I added explanatory comments after the presentation. If you are a Muslim but have different views, please email me at webmaster@muslimHope.com and I can include your responses in a different color. The Bible and God THE BIBLE B1. Study and obey God’s Word as an authority 31 agreed B2. The Old Testament is our authority 34 half B3. The Old Testament prophesied About Jesus 21 agreed B4. Jesus superseded some Old Testament laws 14 agreed B5. The New Testament is our authority 22 Some B6. There are only four true gospels 6 Some B7. Paul’s Letters are scripture 36 Some [He said that Muslims had to respect all the scriptures that the Jews and Christians held, and believed they still contained some of God’s truth, though not in uncorrupted form.] B8. The Gospel of John was written by John 23 No comment on this B9. Heb, Jms, 1,2 Pet, 1,2 Jn, or Jude scripture 29 Some B10. The Book of Revelation is scripture 19 Some God’s Nature G1. There is only One True God 25 agreed G2. God is almighty (omnipotent) 28 agreed G3. God loves us and/or is kind 21 agreed G4. God is holy, good, and or pure 27 agreed G5. God does not speak lies / is truth 11 agreed G6. God is a Father 51 disagreed G7. The Trinity: one God in three ‘Persons’ 15 Bad [disagreed] G8. God knows all / even the secret things 18 agreed G9. God is everywhere 14 Some. Allah is not everywhere, but sees everywhere; His knowledge is everywhere G10. God does not change 11 [I failed to record his comment here] Jesus Christ TIMELESS TRUTHS OF JESUS CHRIST T1. Jesus is the Son of God 32 disagreed T2. Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God 26 disagreed Disagreed T3. The Deity of Jesus our Lord 30 disagreed T4. Jesus is the Word of God 25 disagreed [I predicted that he would agree, but I was mistaken. He said that while both texts agreed on the words, the meaning was different. He believed Jesus is he Word of God referred to the miraculous birth of this messenger of God, while Christians also believed their referred to the deity of Christ.] T5. Jesus is the Alpha & Omega or Door/Gate 12 disagreed T6. Jesus was in heaven from ages past 20 disagreed T7. All things were created through Christ 14 disagreed T8. Worship, praise, or glorify Jesus 19 agreed with praised and glorify, not but worship. [He likewise said they would praise and glorify Mohammed, but not worship him.] T9. Inseparable/Father in Son or Son in Father 14 disagreed T10. Incarnation of the Word/Jesus 18 disagreed JESUS’ INCARNATION ON EARTH J1. Virgin birth of Christ 18 agreed J2. Jesus Christ was a real, sinless man 19 agreed. [I mentioned that the Gnostics denied this, but Muslims and Christians agree on this.] J3. Jesus our High Priest and/or Lamb of God 18 disagreed [He disagreed with any link of the Old Testament blood sacrifices foreshadowing Jesus’ sacrifice for us.] J4. Jesus forgives us / remits sins 17 disagreed J5 Jesus was crucified or died on the cross 29 disagreed J6. Jesus suffered for us 25 disagreed J7. Darkness and earthquake when Jesus died 13 probably not J8. Jesus rose from the dead 27 disagreed J9. Jesus ascended to heaven and will return 17 He said that yes, Jesus ascended, but it does not say how. J10. Jesus: Mediator between God and man 11 disagreed The Holy Spirit and God’s Work THE HOLY SPIRIT H1. Mention of the Holy Spirit 47 disagreed H2. The Holy Spirit is God 14 disagreed H3. Person of the Holy Spirit 28 disagreed H4. Glorify/worship the Holy Spirit 7 disagreed H5. Christ born of Mary by the Holy Spirit 11 disagreed H6. Paraclete (Holy Spirit) already present 14 The (unknown) Spirit of God is present [I found this quite interesting that he said the Qur’an refers to the Spirit of Allah, but does not specify much about that. He said that Christians would be wrong to use this to claim the Qur’an taught more than one God though.] H7. Baptized/washed with the Holy Spirit 6 disagreed H8. The Holy Spirit seals believers 5 disagreed H9. We are filled with the Holy Spirit 13 disagreed H10. Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost 10 disagreed THE WORKING OF GOD W1. God made all things in heaven and earth 24 agreed W2. Heaven and earth were created good 9 agreed [Gnostics disagreed with this and the previous, but Jews, Christians, and Muslims all agreed] W3. God created things from nothing 9 agreed W4. Enoch was translated without dying 8 disagreed W5. Judgment of Noah’s flood / deluge 12 agreed W6. Judgment against Sodom or Gomorrah 9 agreed W7. The crossing of the Red Sea 6 agreed W8. God’s appearances in the Old Testament 5 agreed W9. Jesus performed miracles 20 agreed W10. Jesus preached to the dead 4 disagreed People and Salvation PEOPLE AND THE FALL P1. People are made in the image of God 20 agreed P2. Our bodies die, but our souls are immortal 11 agreed P3. Man fell when Adam and Eve ate the fruit 14 agreed I then asked he believed all the prophets were sinless, and Adam was a prophet, how could have done this and still be a prophet. He answered that Adam became a [sinless] prophet afterwards. P4. We have inherited a sinful nature 9 disagreed with the word "inherit". P5. Our reason/understanding was darkened 9 disagreed P6. All have sinned; or we must be born again 10 All sin except prophets [Another Muslim pointed out that they believed babies are born innocent, and the go to heaven if they die before the age of accountability. He mentioned that the term "age of accountability" was also in the Bible.] P7. No way of salvation apart from Christ 16 disagreed P8. People have the will to choose 16 agreed [and I brought up the Mutzalites in Islam, and he did not claim to be a Mutzalite.] P9. We are aliens awaiting our eternal home 8 agreed [I explained that concept is that believers are now citizens of heaven, and we do not belong to the earth, we are just passing though. He said that though the word was not in the Qur’an or hadiths, he agreed with the concept.] P10. Salvation/church for all kinds of people 9 agreed [understanding mosque for church] SALVATION S1. O.T. pointed to salvation in Christ in New 11 disagreed S2. Salvation is a gift of God’s grace 11 agreed [He said he agreed since it does say "through Christ"] S3. Jesus’ death paid for our sins 14 disagreed S4. Saved by Jesus’ blood or dying for us 18 disagreed S5. Even Jews who reject Jesus will perish 8 ? [The question mark meant that he could not say, because God is the only one who would judge.] S6. Believers are the elect of God 12 agreed [Though the word ‘elect’ is not in the Qu’ran or hadiths, he agreed with the concept that God knew everyone who would go to heaven and hell before they were born.] S7. The reprobate (non-elect) will be lost 9 disagreed [ditto] S8. Some elect died before knowing Savior 10 disagreed on the term "Savior" here. S9. Some follow Christ for a time, yet perish 9 Sort of agree, except the Christ part S10. Not saved if living in sin 10 In God’s hands [He differentiated between a heretical Muslim and a bad Muslim. A heretical Muslim would deny the Qur‘an, all the hadiths, etc. while a bad Muslim would believe Islam but not practice it. A heretic would go to Hell, and all he could say about a bad Muslim is that it is in God’s hands. I remarked that in Christianity it is similar in that if someone denies the key doctrines of Christianity, (Jesus dying for our sins and rising from the dead, etc.) they were definitely not saved. But someone can sin and still be a bad Christian. Another Muslim in the audience asked me if someone can be a Christian and still murder people. I replied that it would be hard for me to imagine it. I said that belief in the Bible does not merely mean intellectual agreement. It also means trusting Jesus as your Lord, which means master. Even in James it says that the demons believe in God, -and shudder. Christians are not perfect, but if a person agrees with the right things, but has not desire to follow God’s commands, they do not truly believe. He then asked me what I thought of the Crusaders. I replied that in my opinion, most of them were going to Hell. Ultimate Things END TIMES E1. The Antichrist will come -after 125 A.D. 13 agreed [I added that in Islam the Antichrist is called the dajjal, and it says one of his eyes will look funny, sort of like a grape.] E2. Heresies and persecution come before him 9 agreed E3. Before this will be many lesser antichrists 11 Many liars before [He said that ‘jal’ means liar, and Islam does not say there will be many dajjals, but there will be many liars before Christ returns. E4. Two witnesses come before Christ returns 4 no record of this E5. Jesus Christ will return -after 125 A.D. 12 agreed [Muslims all believe that Jesus will return. A Sh’ite in the audience added that in Shi’ite Islam, in the endtimes Jesus is not the main figure though, the Mahdi will be the main figure.] E6. Resurrection of believers / all 23 agreed [He said Islam said resurrection of all, not just believers. He said the Bible also teaches resurrection of all; however early church writers emphasized the resurrection of believers, though they also mentioned all.] E7. Christ will judge all / quick and dead 16 disagreed E8. Our names are written in the Book of Life 7 God has the knowledge, but no mention of book of life E9. Those who believe become sons of God 13 disagreed E10. Believers will reign with Christ 6 disagreed ULTIMATE THINGS - HEAVEN AND HELL U1. Description of God’s throne 7 Not same description [Islam teaches of Allah’s throne, and a humanoid figure on the throne.] U2. Angels are servants of God 21 agreed U3. Satan and the demons fell from heaven 8 the jinn Iblis [I first mentioned that Shaytan in Islamic literature can refer to demons or one being, Satan, who is also called Iblis. I asked if he believed Satan was a fallen angel. He said that Satan was of the species jinn, so to speak, but he was standing among the angels at that time. I originally wrote ‘genie’, but one Muslim said that should be written jinn, not genie.] U4. Some fallen angels sinned with women 7 disagree, as would I [We both disagreed that spiritual angels could have sexual relations with physical women. I added that I never said the early Christians were perfect, and this was one place where I thought their interpretation was flawed.] U5. Devil and followers cast in Lake of Fire 15 agreed [I said I knew the Qur’an and hadiths spoke of the fire, but is there any mention of a Lake of Fire. He said there was that too.] U6. The prince of this world is evil/Satan 9 disagreed U7. Reincarnation (transmigration) is wrong 9 agreed [I added that there were small cults that claim to be Christian that believed reincarnation (such as Rev. Moon’s unification church, and there were some sects that claimed to follow Mohammed and the Qur’an that believe in reincarnation such as the Bektashi, but we agreed that this is not the teaching of either Christianity or Islam.] U8. Believers who die are with God forever 12 agreed [I added that people in heaven do not have to worry about getting kicked out later.] U9. All who die rejecting Jesus go to Hell 15 agreed [This might sound surprising that he would agree, but he explained that one has to accept all the prophets in Islam. If a Muslim rejected Jesus, or any other true prophet, as a prophet of God, then they were not a Muslim. U10. Believers have rewards in Heaven 12 agreed that believers can have varying rewards in heaven. Specific Individuals OLD TESTAMENT INDIVIDUALS O1. Cain murdered Abel 9 agreed O2. Abraham offered Isaac as a type of Christ 7 disagreed, the Qur’an implies Ishmael. [I mentioned that while Muslims today say it was Ishmael, the Qur’an, in mentioning this incident, does not specify which son. The Muslim historian al-Tabari gave a list of early Muslim scholars who believed it was Isaac, and a larger list of Muslim scholars who believed it was Ishmael. He responded that the Qur’an implies Ishmael.] O3. Joseph and/or his brothers 9 agreed O4. Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt 11 agreed O5. Joshua obeyed God to conquer Canaan 10 Not aware of any mention of this. O6. David was godly (except adultery) 15 Disagreed with the exception [He does not believe David committed adultery with Bathsheba.] O7. King Solomon was wise 14 agreed O8. Elijah was a godly prophet 10 agreed O9. Hezekiah and the Assyrian army 6 no mention of this O10. Jonah in the fish and warned Ninevites 9 agreed NEW TESTAMENT INDIVIDUALS N1. Herod’s slaughter in Bethlehem 7 no mention N2. John the Baptist was a godly forerunner 15 agreed N3. Judas wickedly betrayed Jesus 18 I think [All Muslims and Christians agree that it appeared that Jesus died on the cross. Christians and the Bible say that he really did die on the cross, and Muslims and the Qur’an say that God miraculously caused another to appear like Jesus, and the other died on the cross. Some Muslims think it was Judas who actually died on the cross, others think it was a volunteer among the disciples, and others someone God created.] [Due to time, we stopped here and did not get to bring up the following part. The following are more individuals and the experience and practices early Christians taught. In the future I hope to discuss this with another imam] [I mentioned that one Christian teaching is that all who reject Christ as the Son of God will perish in Hell. I also said that likewise Muslims believe all who reject Mohammed as a true prophet go to Hell. A Shi’ite in the audience that Shi’ites do not necessarily believe that. For those who follow God but reject Mohammed as a prophet, it is in God’s hands where they go.] One person, who did not claim to be Muslim or Christian, said the session went great until the last ten minutes. N4. Pontius Pilate sentenced Jesus 11 N5. High Priest Caiphas/Herod tried Jesus 9 N6. Peter was a godly apostle or martyr 22 N7. James the Lord’s brother was godly 8 N8. Cornelius the centurion was saved 7 N9. Barnabas was a godly brother 7 N10. Paul was a godly apostle of Christ 21 Experience EXPERIENCING GOD X1. Do not worship any images or idols 15 X2. God/Christ lives inside of Christians 10 X3. Prayer to God is important 38 X4. Pray at all times and in any place 8 X5. Pray to Jesus 6 X6. Follow Jesus or His example 9 X7. Fasting to God is good 12 X8. The Lord disciplines and corrects us 6 X9. Do not love family more than Jesus 4 X10. Suffer persecution or martyrdom 44 REPENTING FROM SIN R1. We need to repent and come to God 28 R2. Do not get drunk 19 R3. Drinking wine is OK 5 R4. No stealing or financial dishonesty 17 R5. Do not love money 10 R6. Forsake lies 9 R7. Abortion is evil/murder 10 R8. Do not murder 17 R9. No astrology 8 R10. No sorcery, witchcraft, or magic 10 Practicing Love INDIVIDUAL PRACTICE I1. Obey or love God 19 I2. Do not worship other gods 23 I3. Have pure speech 8 I4. Don’t let the sun go down on your anger 4 I5. Be humble or not proud 10 I6. Be content with what you have 6 I7. Be peaceful, kind, gentle, or good 12 I8. Have patience or self-control 8 I9. Eating meat is fine 10 I10. No drinking or eating blood 4 LOVING OTHERS L1. Love all / your neighbor as yourself 10 L2. Forgive others/enemies; turn other cheek 13 L3. Do not get revenge 7 L4. Do not envy, covet or be jealous 18 L5. Do to others as you would them do to you 6 L6. Help the poor 13 L7. Help widows or orphans 11 L8. Heavenly treasure; don’t fear earthly loss 13 L9. Practice hospitality 13 L10. Preach the gospel to others 9 Church ASSEMBLING TOGETHER A1. Christians met together on Sunday 7 A2. Sing hymns to God, the Father, or Jesus 16 A3. Practice water baptism 26 A4. Partake of the Lord’s Supper 17 A5. No more animal sacrifices needed 7 A6. Offer money/possessions to God 8 A7. Learn from prior church writers/councils 14 A8. Cheer up/encourage other believers 5 A9. Correct other believers 7 A10. Separate from those who persist in sin 4 CHURCH LEADERSHIP C1. Obey authority of godly church leaders 6 C2. The Church should have unity 16 C3. Excommunicate or separate from heretics 15 C4. Bishop, elders/presbyters, or deacons 40 C5. Church leaders should accept each other 7 C6. Reject unchristian church leader authority 12 C7. Remove leaders fallen in gross sin/heresy 6 C8. Concept of one universal church 24 C9. Churches should greet other churches 9 C10. Tradition of the apostles or the church 11 Family and Government FAMILY AND MARRIAGE F1. Honor marriage, no extra-marital relations 27 F2. No divorce except for unfaithfulness 9 F3. We should be modest and pure 10 F4. Do not watch violent or lewd shows 10 F5. No homosexuality 11 F6. We should honor our parents 10 F7. Cherish and nurture our family 7 F8. Having children (within marriage) is fine 9 F9. Celibacy is better than marriage 7 F10. Remarriage OK after death of spouse 4 KING, GOVERNMENT, AND LAWS K1. Honor the king or government 5 K2. Obey government when not against God 7 K3. Do not aid in persecuting Christians 6 K4. Pay taxes 7 K5. Pray for rulers and those in authority 6 K6. Pray for those who persecute you 13 K7. Government officials ought to be just 8 K8. Disobey or change unjust laws 8 K9. God’s providence governs the world 27 K10. Christ is king, or kingdom of Christ 25 Refuting Error REFUTE HERETICAL GROUPS r1. Dispute against Ebionites (Judaizers) 8 r2. Simon Magus persisted in his heresy 7 r3. From Marcion came many heresies 13 r4. Dispute against Valentinian Gnostics 16 r5. Dispute against Sethians or Ophites 6 r6. Dispute against Encratite Gnostics 7 r7. Dispute against other Gnostics 13 r8. No mixing Christ and other religions 18 r9. Avoid Docetism -only appeared to suffer 11 r10. Dispute against Sabellians (Oneness) 13 DISPUTE AGAINST OTHER ERRORS D1. Do not judge/condemn others 8 D2. Dispute against Judaism 16 D3. Dispute against Greco-Roman paganism 14 D4. Dispute philosophy that denies one God 13 D5. Dispute against the Magi / Zoroastrians 10 D6. Dispute against Indian Bra[c]hmans 6 D7. Dispute Egyptian myths 12 D8. Dispute Chaldean/Babylonian religion 9 D9. Dispute Syrian or Arabian religions 6 D10. Dispute Druid or other European myths 6 Doctrine Odds and Ends EXPERIENCING GOD X1. Do not worship any images or idols 15 X2. God/Christ lives inside of Christians 10 X3. Prayer to God is important 38 X4. Pray at all times and in any place 8 X5. Pray to Jesus 6 X6. Follow Jesus or His example 9 X7. Fasting to God is good 13 X8. The Lord disciplines and corrects us 6 X9. Do not love family more than Jesus 4 X10. Suffer persecution or martyrdom 43 Doctrinal Odds and Ends GOD AND JESUS ODDS AND ENDS B11. Old Testament has types of Christ 8B12. Some parts of the Bible are allegorical 9G11. Majesty/glory of God 21B12. God is a Jealous God 4G13. God rejoices over us 10T11. Jesus our/the Lord 39T12. Jesus at the right-hand of God 10T13. Jesus is the first-born (not just of Mary) 16J11. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist 8J12. Jesus is our Shepherd 16OTHER DOCTRINAL ODDS AND ENDS H11. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit 5H12. Sevenfold Spirit or seven spirits 5W11. Moses and the burning bush 7W12. The apostles worked miracles 5E11. Rapture of believers 5E12. Believers will judge the world, or angels 4E13. Believers are the bride of Christ 5U11. The Millennium or the thousand years 6U12. Mention of the angel Gabriel 8U13. Mention of the archangel Michael 7Experience and Pracdtice Odds and Ends EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE ODDS AND ENDS O11. Melchizedek of Salem 6O12. Samson 8N11. Mary Magdalene 5N12. Thomas the apostle 9N13. Stephen the martyr 10X11. We rejoice when afflicted 6X12. We rejoice –besides being afflicted 14X13. Put on the armor of God/righteousness 7X14. Out bodies are God’s temple/temples 8X15. Exorcism or casting out devils 12PRACTICE ODDS AND ENDS I11. Do not be a slave of your belly 7L11. Love covers a multitude of sins 4D11. Do not throw pearls before swine 6D12. Apologetic use of Plato’s Timaeus 6D13. Apologetic use of Jupiter’s tomb 7D14. Pointing out immoralities of Greek gods 12
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